wherever he could. he applied for a job in chicago after washington was elected mayor there. he didn't get anything. so the best he could do was stay in new york. he wouldn't want to go back to honolulu. he didn't have anyplace else. so he stayed there and as he put it, you try to make money for yourself and get a job. it is sort of a magazine or consulting firm called business international. for that year, he doesn't really like it there, but that is the period when they talk a lot. it is the period when he met genevieve. >> host: so david maraniss, going back to the quote, no life could have been the product of randomness like that of barack obama. chicago became a part of that randomness? >> guest: well, the mayoral election in chicago was very attracted to him. and chicago was the place to be at that time. oprah winfrey, michael jordan, the king of the bulls, oprah winfrey had her show, and barack obama who came anonymously. and he is arguably today's most influential. >> host: in chicago community organizer, you quote him. saying that obama was one of the most cautious people i ever m
